Eye Contact - A Conversation with Cammie McGovern

Eye Contact

Cammie McGovern: Thanks so much it’s good to be here.
Penny Sansevieri: Tell us a little bit about your background. Eye Contact is definitely not your first book.
Cammie McGovern: No it’s my second.
Penny Sansevieri: What was your first book?
Cammie McGovern: Called the Art of Seeing and it came out maybe four years ago and that is a story about sisters one of whom is an actress who gets into movies at a relatively young age as my own sister did who is Elizabeth McGovern.
Penny Sansevieri: Okay. Wonderful. Now Eye Contact though is very different. It’s very different from the Art of Seeing.
Cammie McGovern: Yes, I’d say so. It’s much more of a mystery and Art of Seeing was more of a literary novel if you put these things into types.
Penny Sansevieri: Right, right exactly. But Eye Contact especially now it seems like you like to write about things that you’re passionate about. Eye Contact especially which is a story of an autistic child who witnesses a murder. Where did the inspiration for this book come from?

Cammie McGovern: Well I am the mother of a 10 year old with autism. I have three kids and it’s our oldest son who has autism and I think I started it when he was quite young or I got the idea for it when he was maybe 4 years old and that is a time when as any parent of any autistic child will say it’s a very, very intense time in your life because you’re so focused on doing as many therapies as possible to help your child come as far as possible in communication, in learning, in catching up with his peers and play skills and everything.
Our son had started talking in – his language came to him in a way that is very common with autistic kids as echolalia or kind of repeated phrases that he had heard from the day. He was actually amazing at it. He finally started talking and within six months he was sort of repeating something he would have heard in a perfect Spanish accent that a bus driver had said or something like that. I got the idea that it would be – the phrases and things he was saying were so bizarre and so random that I thought what would happen if there was something that he knew that a whole community needed to find out and was hanging on these bizarre snippets that kind of come from his mouth. In a way it’s almost a funny idea. But the story itself is darker because he’s witnessed the murder of a classmate during school hours.
I put a real dark and sort of menacing knowledge that he has. He has presumably witnessed the murder and everyone is trying to figure out what he’s seen and how they can get to the bottom of it really.

Penny Sansevieri: Exactly. But the broader I think maybe purpose of the book and correct me if I’m mistaken to sort of get –
Cammie McGovern: How parenting a child led to writing this book?
Penny Sansevieri: Yeah did you want to sort of draw more attention to autism because you know frankly when I went through your information it struck me I thought wow here is something that we don’t – it’s not really top of mind in the news media and things like that.
Cammie McGovern: Some people would say it’s getting a lot more than it used to because the numbers are so much higher than it used to. Absolutely one goal of writing this book is to try and present – I do feel like – present as many stories as possible and mine would just be one because I feel like there is more and more coming out. Here is autism. Here is what it looks like and here is how they are moving through the world and operating these children with this disorder. I absolutely am hoping that people read this book to find a good mystery and learn something about this kind of epidemic generation of children that are coming of age with autism.
I also was hoping that when you are parenting a child with autism there’s early on you came to love and read all these stories about the kids who get so much better. There’s a certain paucity of the stories about kids who get better but are still autistic still clearly autistic that I kept getting frustrated and ultimately kind of depressed by the stories of all the recovered kids and the kids who are waltzing into first grade just fine. I wanted to sort of tell a story about a kid who’s not just fine who is still autistic who’s older – in the book he’s nine years old but is still got a lot of surprises he’s capable of.

I wanted to show what that kid is really like and what these children – what they’re wrestling with and also what they’re capable of and I’m hoping it’s an optimistic story. That it’s not depressing about the grim realities of parenting a child with autism because in fact it’s not all grim. There’s magical and amazing things about it. So I’m hoping that comes through too.

Penny Sansevieri: Well it certainly does because the thing that really sort of grabbed me about this book is that you have managed to put a very important message into a story that is just – it was very powerful and kept me reading –
Cammie McGovern: Oh good.
Penny Sansevieri: I thought it takes a very talented person to be able to get a message across about the book but just always sort of being about that message.
Cammie McGovern: Oh yes I hope I hope – I’m much more interested in a good story when I’m reading a book. Absolutely I kind of get tired – so I’m hoping that it’s really just a good story first and foremost and that surprises and that does keep you reading. Then I’m hoping that the message behind it is one that’s good for people who are familiar with autism and a kind of reassuring reflection on the good and bad things about life for parents and then also for people that don’t know it at all. I hope.
Penny Sansevieri: Now for those people who are listening who aren’t – whose lives haven’t been affected or don’t know anybody who has an autistic child what are some of the statistics because you mentioned something about that we seem to be seeing this more unless I misunderstood.
Cammie McGovern: No absolutely.
Penny Sansevieri: Are we seeing more autism in children?
Cammie McGovern: Yes and the statistics are hard to pin down exactly but the most conservative ones say that starting in the early 1990s autism was about one – the late 80s autism diagnosis was 1in 5,000. Now it is estimated to be 1 in 166 kids and that’s actually a conservative estimate. The explanation for that is what is eluding scientists. I believe in what a lot of research needs to go into and hopefully will get that pretty soon. It’s still being debated. I believe it’s going to be a whole combination of explanations and reasons that I think these are kids who are genetically pre-disposed to be vulnerable to certain environmental toxins or exposure to these metals – certain exposures and certain things that some kids – their bodies can deal with fine and these somehow had this exposure and a lot of the kids and especially new ones getting diagnosed are very physically ill as well. They’ve got chronic allergies and immune systems that are kind of broken down and the brain is simply part of a whole picture of a really sick kid. That was actually my son – had chronic gastrointestinal issues and a host of immune system problems that finally as those get better it becomes the brain that you’re working on and what happened to that to delay the development. But clearly it’s a real physical issue as well.
Penny Sansevieri: Yeah it really is. Now let me ask you something. You said something earlier about reading a lot of books and hoping that these children get better. Do they ever recover from this? Is this something that is –
Cammie McGovern: Yes I think so but it’s very rare and it’s very unclear exactly who recovers and what the magic secrets are. I would say I think we’re going to finally start to see some long term studies that are going to tell us something pretty soon I’m hoping. But because what happens when you have a child diagnosed with autism is that you essentially never see the doctor again who delivers the diagnosis. That you are told in variation of words that there’s nothing medical science knows what to do with these kids. That it’s a huge new population that’s getting diagnosed with this. It’s real it’s here and there’s been no long term studies that tell us exactly the right things to do.
So you immediately go home and start to network over the internet with other parents who become your best resources and you start to read on umpteen different therapies that are available and are written about and you launch in using your instinct and your hunches about which ones will work for your kid because it’s very different. Kids are very different about what works best and what doesn’t and everybody is doing trial and error and the best they can. I’m curious down the line what will be said of – I don’t think it will be a matter of certain therapies turn out to be this was the magic bullet that more kids recovered doing dietary or doing ABA or doing floor time. I think it’s going to end up being a combination of a lot of things and proactive parents early on. Early intervention is clearly a big component and the earlier you get a diagnosis and start working the better off the kid – that much is clearly known but it’s not known what exactly you’re doing. You see what I’m saying?
Penny Sansevieri: Yeah, no I do I do. It sounds like a very lonely road for –
Cammie McGovern: Oh it’s awful. In the beginning it’s awful and very hard and very lonely so support groups are not only wonderful they’re kind of essential because that exchange of information with other parents is so much more useful by and large than what doctors can tell you or very often. I think in the end it has connected me to other parents in ways that is really unusual and special and has been a wonderful gift because we all have children who are vulnerable and fragile and we are all trying our best to help them attain as much as they possibly can. People that you’ve shared that with it’s remarkable. Those are real friendships that will stand the test of time I think.
Penny Sansevieri: What is your – is there currently sort of a voice out there for children with autism. Is there somebody that’s really speaking out to these parents or do you hope at some point to be that person?
Cammie McGovern: That’s an interesting question. There’s a lot of different voices because there’s a lot of different people prioritizing different aspects of the disorder and some groups are calling for more research which we need and they’re correct. There’s a new organization called Autism Speaks that was started by Bob Wright the CEO of NBC and it has galvanized a lot of money and a lot of power I think in a short time. In two years they’ve been in operation I think. Since his grandson was diagnosed.
They are doing important work I think on good – on disseminating information – helping people connect with doctors that will be useful to them and pressuring politicians to vote for more research and I think that’s a good website. Autism Research Institute is the oldest website and the most useful for parents – those ones are good early ones to check in on. As far as being the voice of – I do hope that the op-ed piece I wrote in the New York Times – the vast majority I did get a surprising number of letters that were very, very moving to me.
About 90% of them were people saying thank you for the kind of message of reassurance about what we’ve done with our child. I think I must have touched a nerve that just I thought was only me and yet it must not have been of parents wrestling with a bit of feeling guilty about how far their child had come and how much they were able to do. Essentially the point of the op-ed piece was. At some point you have to accept the – you know a child with autism and their limitations and what they are and aren’t going to be capable of doing and learn the process of just enjoying your child more and enjoying who they are and where they’re at instead of working all the time towards this goal of recovery or getting better. I had – it was sort of a new idea that this in recent years I’ve been trying to tell myself more and apparently it was a reassuring message. So I hope that that helped other parents. I would hope to be able to do that more.
Penny Sansevieri: Well it certainly was. It was a great piece and you also have a list of resources not just information about your books and all the work you’re doing and I want to talk about some of the events that you’ve got coming up and things like that. But cammiemcgovern.com you have a wonderful resource section for people looking to get into websites and things like that.
Cammie McGovern: Good I’m glad that you liked it.
Penny Sansevieri: Yeah, it was really wonderful. Now Eye Contact struck me – you’ve got this really just never give up character mother and I just heard that Julia Roberts or I read in your information – Julia Roberts got the option for the movie?
Cammie McGovern: Yes that’s right.
Penny Sansevieri: That’s wonderful.
Cammie McGovern: Yes.
Penny Sansevieri: What happens next when something like that occurs in your life?
Cammie McGovern: Oh I think you are very grateful and then you what everyone says you don’t expect too too much that she goes off and tries to find a match with a good screenwriter that can produce a good screenplay and – and I have oftentimes I think she is a very nice and open minded producer and someone who respects the original artist. But in general I would say Hollywood is not that interested in what a novelist has to say about any movie adaptation that gets done of their book and I would have said – there was some discussion early on about what mattered to me and what were important points and I just said what mattered was get someone on to write it who really knew autism and that that was realistically portrayed. I think it’s been done really well in movies and really really badly in movies where it doesn’t seem true at all. I wanted it to have the kid seem truly autistic and have that be an important point. Other than that I would say I’ve not had too much input or too much involvement.
Penny Sansevieri: Well it’s exciting though because certainly Julia Roberts is known for her passion in movies –
Cammie McGovern: Yes absolutely.
Penny Sansevieri: You know her love of portrayal of you know particular characters and things like that much like the people in your novel. So that’s wonderful. It’s an exciting thing. You’ve got a lot of – you’re doing a lot of things. You’re on the road it seems like. You’ve got some stuff going on through the summer – signings for your book. You’re going to be in Los Angeles and Massachusetts and New York and Chicago so –
Cammie McGovern: Yes that’s right. Chicago – California at the end of the summer and Chicago is early in the fall in September.
Penny Sansevieri: That’s wonderful. Now tell us what is coming up for you. I know this book is just out but we know that usually it takes a long time from the time that you finish a book for it to come out. Do you have anything else that you’re excited about that you’re working on?
Cammie McGovern: Yes I do. It’s another mystery and I have found having more of a background in writing literary fiction I tried my hand at this and just loved it. I loved the whole challenge of writing a mystery plot and the way that you try and set up certain expectations and twist them around and turn them and so I’m definitely going to write another mystery and hopefully one with where part of it – part of the fun of this book was having a character at the center who is himself such a mystery and kind of an unknown element and I want to try and have that again where it’s – there’s both a crime that we’re trying to get to the bottom of and also a character at the center that we’re trying to get to the bottom of and understand better. So it will be not too dissimilar from Eye Contact.
Penny Sansevieri: Well that’s wonderful. I look forward to it. Again her website is cammiemcgovern.com and Cammie finally we ask of all the authors appearing on the show who is your fascinating author?
Cammie McGovern: Oh, I wish I had thought about this ahead of time. You mean who am I reading right now that I’m enjoying?
Penny Sansevieri: Well who fascinates you the most?
Cammie McGovern: Oh I guess I have to say I can answer that. It would be some of the mystery writers. Some of the English mystery writers but if I had to pick one I guess I would pick Ruth Rendell and how in the world does she write so much at such an extraordinary high quality and with very, very different characters and set ups and this would be including her pseudonym books – the Barbara Vine books which are all take – it’s the Barbara Vine books that I’ve been most interested in because they take the whole genre and turn it around in an interesting way where you know in the beginning who the murderer is but you don’t know who got killed or something like that – really interesting premise and she just has got so many wonderful books that I am completely intrigued for how in the world she does it.
Penny Sansevieri: It’s amazing sometimes isn’t it?
Cammie McGovern: Yes.
Penny Sansevieri: Yeah I know it. Well Cammie thank you so much you have been a wonderful guest. Eye Contact is a fabulous book. I encourage everyone to go out and get a copy.
Cammie McGovern: Thank you so much.
Penny Sansevieri: Good luck with your tour and your upcoming book and with the movie.
Cammie McGovern: Yes indeed thank you.
Penny Sansevieri: Have a wonderful day.
Cammie McGovern: You too.
Penny Sansevieri: Thanks.
Cammie McGovern: Bye bye.